Can't wait to see more innovation!! Sure, theres the free market, but this also seems borderline exploitative. And a minimum of 40. This is not to fault or say any of my peers who's airlines have gone defunct (through no doing of their own) are underskilled pilots - they are well seasoned vets of an industry that was finally recovering from 9/11, the recession, age 65 rule and now COVID. And many of the commenters on here will fill seats when UA is 5x the price on Are all the posts from FAs at other airlines? Need to use the Robinhood model where PAX fly free or get paid to fly, in exchange for all of their data / information which can be sold for revenue generation. And I'm not convinced a bright college student can't get the job done. Why are we encouraging a race to the bottom? End stage capitalism here people. $1,200 a month is an embarrassment. No one is forcing applicants to accept pay they don't like. You get paid to sign up more people to pay union dues. Right now I believe there are more pilots than are needed. How will Breeze compensate flight attendants? Are all the posts from FAs at other airlines? This airline is banking on their 4 year contract holding up. share. Wow, quite a few idiot comments: 1) Against unions: not every employee is good at negotiating. In the end I wish people would stop looking at every opportunity through their own eyes and realize that not every job has to be a union job or a job with all the perks of a career. Will they get pilots? The article also fails to factor in per diem amounts and the tax advantage that goes with that. Wow, what a depressing indicator of the state of our society with an emptied out middle class that flight attendants are being hired at poverty wages and worthless online "tuition credits.". Kendor coming out strongly in favor of Gilded Age company towns, I see. They better start changing the pilot pay or pilots will start leaving to China and make real time money up there . Some interns are unpaid. Im a bit confused. Whatta country! And before some smart guy points out to me that money is the reason for business, think back to business 101 golden ruletreat your employees the way youd like to be treated, and they will go above and beyond to make YOU more money. The benefit of getting on right now at Breeze is seniority in the future. This company is bad for the US economy and society. My regional airline was a casualty of covid and Breeze seems like a great fit for someone like myself. Opinions expressed here are the authors alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any of these entities. Years ago right out of college I worked as a contractor on-site at one of the biggest technology companies in the world. 2. You think this college student focused recruit is the only thing they've planned for beyond the short term? An airline that keeps harassing me with upsell offers on my purchase? Before we get into the details of Breezes pilot pay, and compare it to pay at other airlines, note that: First year Breeze pilots will make $36,300. Spirit flight attendants are generally better than AA and UA. Only Skyworst has no union in the regional game, and they continue to get guys to sign up by force feeding the kool-aid by the tankful. Bottom line: Supply and Demand principles are at play. report. Add to that COVID and these poor guys will have NO CHOICE but to fly for these asshats. The pay scale offered is not "borderline exploitative", it IS exploitative. Apart from seeking to keep labor cost for the flight attendants lower than at airlines where seniority translates into wage escalation over time, not to mention other costs such as health insurance, which also becomes more expensive as most of us advance in age, or perhaps even pension costs, since the college interns are envisioned as moving on to other occupations after they age out - er graduate - another benefit of this innovative labor Apart from seeking to keep labor cost for the flight attendants lower than at airlines where seniority translates into wage escalation over time, not to mention other costs such as health insurance, which also becomes more expensive as most of us advance in age, or perhaps even pension costs, since the college interns are envisioned as moving on to other occupations after they age out - er graduate - another benefit of this innovative labor policy for flight attendants just so happens to be maintaining a youthful labor force as seniors depart from - er graduate - their internships and are replaced by freshmen (and women; the term fresh was intentionally omitted as that does not exactly present well given the context). As in, Gompers? This job is not nor intended to be for every young person. So, before any taxes at all, they would be looking at $20-30/hr. This seems more in line with what they should be receiving for compensation. I can't always trust a computer system to give me the perks or pay attention to the details I care about. Failing that, they were determined to not pay one dime more than their competition. Of course we know what Nelson is really up: unions cant stand having to compete and this model could threaten her power and the power of her union. Whats my take? 3) Solid work experience in my chosen industry! Well, there are some more details about how this will work. Free shipping for many products! Why not schedule surgery with a doctor as an intern? 28 years represented by ALPA, walked the picket line 29 days in 1985 and was ready to do it again several times during my career to entice management to come to the negotiating table with a better contract for pilots. So much whining and squealing. I will make $15-20 per hour for my hard work on average when you figure all the work we do for free. My regional got dumped by United and now Im at another regional at the bottom of a seniority list making way less money with bad work rules flying the same tail numbers I did before. People in that position have the option of not working and watching their skills and socialization go fallow, or working and having the first and last dollar of their income taxed at 70% and more under federal and state taxation. Have you gone to college? Age of planes? The industry does need an overall. No thank you! El Segundo, CA 90245. $1,200/mo if you have 15 days off and $1,400/mo if only 10. Yes, I'm probably talking about you dummy. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). Within a few years, she decided ENT surgery would be somewhat more interesting work and spent more than a decade training up at a resident wages that most union folk would scoff at. Their value is astronomical. The company may credit new hires for any prior active years of service at another Part 121/135 air carrier or at a Mesa-affiliated pilot development program for purposes of calculating years of service for compensation, vacation, and retirement. return on investment. You think the fact they've bought a union card somehow empowers them with experience? Poor, poor me. Checking in Online. Are they taking advantage of the pilot supply right nowprobably so, because they can, but to claim they're being "exploitative" is a stretch in my opinion. There are young people for whom a collegial work environment and highly social university-style housing would be quite appealing while they build skills. There could be plenty of pilots typed and timed in the E-jets whod be willing to take this awhile waiting to get (back) to the majors. Everyone should apply. I wonder if its plausible he could bring some pilots up from Azul to fill gaps if US pilots arent too interested? less than daily to leisure/small markets. The founder of the airline is David Neeleman, the same guy behind JetBlue. People may weigh each differently but those are the top three for nearly all travelers. The pay is horrifically low, though. Grumpy old man can be Ebenezer Scrooge. Love! There's a lot Obviously, a lot of people are not aware of what a flight attendant's role is (listen up Neeleman). An airline, perfect for SLC. @RobertB unless Breeze starts showing a pattern of denying jobs to older, experienced flight attendants who want to do the work and following Breeze's presumably legal employment practices, there is no discrimination. The bad news is that there may not be enough hours. Thanks for being transparent that these comments are nearly all from a union organizing push before the airline even launches. No guests. *The whole "Home Monthly" is based on operational needs and must be scheduled 3 weeks prior. Or what if you Wow, quite a few idiot comments: Impressive to see how discussion of new airline business immediately decedents into anti-religious bigotry. Corporate apartments with two bedrooms. Would much rather have spent my time working for peanuts high in the sky, and jetting to interesting places. The estimated salary at Breeze Airways ranges from approximately $14,500 per year for Team Leader to $150,907 per year for Director.. I expect a complete unbundling a la Spirit but with a much wider, more attractive range of upgrade interests for passengers. My airline had a trip that left LGA early in the morning to CMH. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners, Theyll receive $6,000 towards tuition for online coursework, Expect most Breeze tickets this summer to cost well under $100 one-way, When Breeze takes delivery of A220s later this year the airline will offer a first class, and expect those tickets to cost an extra $50-100 one-way, Breeze will charge $20 for checked bags on flights under three hours, Breeze wont charge change or cancelation fees, Breezes trip costs will be 25-30% lower than for competitors with A320s or 737s, While Breezes Embraer aircraft will have 108-118 seats, the airline will be able to break even when selling just 60 seats, Since the lease costs on Breezes planes are so low, the airline can afford to keep the planes parked during the week when demand is low, and fly them primarily on weekends, when demand is much higher, It sounds like Breeze is going to have an unheard of cost structure that will put virtually any other airline to shame; if the airline can really break even with a 50-55% load factor all while operating fairly small planes (that are easy to fill), Breeze will be a force to be reckoned with, Breeze is claiming that technology will be a true point of differentiation, though I feel like virtually every airline executive claims that about their own airline; only time will tell if this is all talk, or if Breeze has done something that no other airline has successfully done, Its so strange to me how Neeleman is known for building airlines with incredible corporate cultures and employee morale, where employees are able to grow with the airline, while hes seemingly taking a different approach with Breeze; I wonder how Breeze will evolve over time. I'm not sure anything this post really supports the hypothesis that they're underpaid. Per the website, FAs can work a maximum of 60 hours per month. Hey. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); My neighbor is in this program. Then, when mainline hiring picks-up (as it inevitably will) they'll dump Breeze like a cheap date. Its their choice. I think it will succeed as long as they can attract enough flight attendants on an ongoing basis. Breeze Now, Pay Later. Does the fact that all FA positions are, looking at the website, classified as "part-time" allow them to avoid paying for health insurance? Most professionals are comfortable with the idea of a starter job, and aren't looking for a father figure in their employer to guide them gently into old age. First Officer 1st year $89 and $130 in year six. I wish you luck in you career and travels. At 5 bucks an hour. I'm assuming Breeze knows there's going to be a number of unemployed pilots and $77K+ a year is better than unemployment benefits. It's silly to ape outrage when we don't know a lot of the details of the actual work and schedule. If the labor model is as stupid and exploitative as you seem to believe it is, it will fail. @samuel. Such a shame. The concept does turn on to be "too good to be true" at least for me, just based on the insurance matter alone. Copyright 2005-2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. That's the Breeze way. These numbers are minimums. 3) People as interns/college kids: I would like to have a job for life. It may be time to consider this for FAs too. Technology is greatuntil something goes wrong. Heres what we can expect from pricing and fees in general: Breeze is launching operations with Embraer 190/195 aircraft, which the airline is leasing for very little. There will be scheduled 1% pay raises on September 15, 2023, and September 15, 2024. If you are a green bean rookie like Cricket than you will imagine that you have won the lottery.. Must be at least 23 years old at the time of hire, Must have 1,500+ hours total time (not including simulator and/or Flight Engineer time), Current First-Class FAA Medical Certificate, Valid FCC Radiotelephone Operators Permit, Must have or be able to obtain a valid U.S. drivers license, Must have or be able to obtain a valid passport, Must be able to travel unrestricted to and from the United States, Must have authorization to work in the United States as defined by the Immigration Reform Act of 1986, High school diploma or equivalent educational achievement, FAA Unrestricted Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate with airplane multi-engine class rating, Must have a minimum of 3,000 hours fixed wing time. Maybe there are ancillary benefits/travel privileges' that are enormously valuable to some people. Neeleman has a track record of success in the industry, so Im curious to see how this venture works out. As a college student, I love the idea! As an MD and introducing herself to patients as "Doctor", her salary started at about $30,000. This hasnt been without controversy, though. I will never fly them, nor will I encourage anyone to work for them or fly them, until they pay real, market rates. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. I interviewed with them for cabin crew You must be enrolled at Utah Valley University full-time and maintain 3.0 GPA. Have you gone to college? *No insurance provided. David Neeleman has always been a skinflint. The pay is horrifically low, though. They can't practice on their own. I think the best way for this airline to implement their business model is to pay for its pilots training from 0 hrs to 1500 hrs and then these pilots can work for them at their pay scale that will make more sense. Breeze Airways is finally making its debut on May 27 just in time for Memorial Day weekend and the start of what will likely be a busy summer season. . Why are we encouraging a race to the bottom? As the app is described: That app, Neeleman says, is designed to convince customers to shell out for upgrades and extras, from food to rental cars, which Breeze is depending on to turn a profit. Breeze Airways will initially fly Embraer 190s, but eventually plans to operate a fleet consisting exclusively of Airbus A220s. Meanwhile my friends will be stuck in their entry-level cubicles. Unfortunately flying is something easy to be passionate about, and the industry takes advantage. I know these FA's will not be scheduled for overnight trips. its entrepreneurs and change-makers. That minimum guarantee is just that, a minimum. How awful that Neeleman is forcing people to work under these conditions with a gun to their head! I suppose they could be selling the dream of having high seniority at the airline as it grows, with hope of better pay in the future, but. But its gross. Aviation professionals pay has changed dramatically, starting in the late 80s. AFTER 4 YEARS YOUR CONTRACT IS OVER AND CANNOT BE RENEWED. And even if you talked endlessly to that reassuring gray-haired physician in the lead-up to your surgery, you know, the guy or gal who wrote the textbook on your ailment and who appears a shoe-in to be the next chairman of the school of medicine at the cutting-edge research institution where you've opted to get the very best care (you deserve it! We don't really know enough at this point. Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim. Editorial Disclosure: The editorial content on this page is not provided by any entity mentioned herein. The airline is hiring both pilots and flight attendants, given that its close to launching operations. Finally, Breeze needs to get its financial footing or their employees could all be forced out on the street. A huge percentage of new flight attendants leave within the first year. Do you see 50 yo or 70 yo lifeguards on the beach? Maybe wait and see? My only other option right now is to start all over at another regional where the pay, seniority, and quality of life will be much lower. Sounds very ME3. To help clarify that, the DoL requires that the intern cannot displace any worker, receive instruction equivalent to or complementary to enrolled coursework. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. You can work at a lot of fast food places and now get $15 an hour plus benefits. Posts: 36,185. 14% below the national average Job openings matching Flight Attendant in Breeze Airways Breeze Airways Flight Attendant - Full Time BDL Hartford, CT 30+ days ago Breeze Airways Flight Attendant - Full Time ORF the recruiters told me: *No insurance provided. It gets so tiresome. I'm 41. I could have worked for the also defunct Pilgrim Airlines. 1) Free Housing! Students hired by Breeze under the program, however, can only work as flight attendants while they are completing the university course. 6) When I have a lay-over in some capital of commerce, I may even be able to interview for my next great adventure for once I graduate! And its our fault. Im glad to see youre excited to join the industry. And @Ben L. is still reminiscing the best cars in the world evar, made by 100% union labor in the 1980s. 1. So a lifelong career. Having been a flight attendant I can tell you 15 days is not part time. Captain 1st year $192 and $203 in year six. Our business address is: Off topic, sorry. You don't get any insurances. And there are always plenty more ready to come into the pipeline. Expect PGD, IAG, SFB, ORH, RFD, PIT and to change seasonally. But thank you again for the advice. @rich Does your fast food place include housing as part of compensation? Because it is an opportunity to teach them the skills to land a career or job that they would not have otherwise had a chance for. Not Verified | Breeze is an interesting new airline with pros and cons. @Wendy B Gates - Breeze didn't specifically tell me I'm too old, they said I was overqualified. I have worked with underpaid and undermotivated staff, and it s not pretty: for the staff, the management, the investors and the customers. I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. *The whole Home Monthly is based on operational needs and must Monty, I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. AFTER 4 YEARS YOUR CONTRACT IS OVER AND CANNOT BE RENEWED. When it comes to Breeze Airways, theres good news and bad news. 909 N. Sepulveda Blvd, 11th Floor The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered. Enjoy the Race To The Bottom, along with the clientele it will surely attract (think Spirit but even more extreme). Monty, I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. The wont to have pilots on there books, but wont have at the beginnig a lot of flightsSo from a business point it makes sence to have more pilots who only fligh 55h instead of having less pilots with 75h. Copyright 2005-2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. *No insurance provided. Customer service: Generally speaking, younger hires are friendlier and perkier. And in the interview say no thanks pay to low and walk out. This year is unique in pilots employment, but when the majors start hiring again, they will love poaching all the pilots from Breeeze! I cringe at labeling jobs without limitless potential for professional growth as "dead-end". Housing and travel to/from work provided. So Breeze might get a few "interns" but the vast majority of people wanting the job want to stay there their whole working lives. It's funny, isn't it the view of things changes upon where you're standing. So, that will be difficult. This is how young doctors learn their craft in America and all over the world. Landing June 2023. Where do I sign up? But after all these furloughed guys get hired, who then? 2) housing: I am curious what housing? Oh wait. Is this essentially age discrimination? There are laws preventing this for a reason. We are seeing a rapid deployment of apps and self-service kiosks to replace human workforce that don't bring $15 an hour value. If the pay is off the mark, the marketplace will correct this soon enough: pilots have options, and they know it. There is nothing wrong with it: young doctors tend to be closest to what's cutting edge and have read the latest medical studies and literature. Reset Password. In other words, the airline is trying to exclude anyone who has a family, a college degree, or is looking to build a career. There are many young people that lack the $$ or choose not to go into debt (student loan/s) for a traditional higher education. The starting and long-term salaries offered by Breeze Airway are as follows for First Officers and Captains: First Officers: $55 an hour raise to $94 an hour by the sixth year of employment, Captains: $117 an hour raised to $143 an hour by year six of flying with the company. . Not how youd describe most 70-year-olds. They can't profitably or even just realistically offer higher minimums than that at this point because they won't have the volume of flights. The Breeze pilots, once hired, will see the minimum hour guarantee as a point of shame and quickly set up union representation. Not sure if labor pool for whom the model fits is really large enough to support high turnover baked into the model or can support scale to provide regular flight frequency but we'll see. If the labor model is as stupid and exploitative as you seem to believe it is, it will fail. Would you pay your doctor, lawyer, nurse, even architect, engineer, electrician, plumber, welder etc. Does New Carrier Breeze Airways Pay Pilots Enough. But I guess everyone agrees that the duties of FAs are just going down day by day. Yeah.let us be honest.A 25 year veteran flight attendant is not someone most of us want on a flight. 100% Upvoted. I don't know how Breeze expects to hire the best people who invest in the job at those wages. Getting paid $30-$40,000 isnt enough to keep most from leaving after a year. They know how lousy the job market is right now, and Im sure they have a very good idea of what the numbers are going to look like, not only now, but in the coming months and years when it comes to out-of-work pilots. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners, Pilots generally get paid for flight hours; the hourly rate might seems high, but pilots arent getting paid for anywhere close to 40 hours per week of work, Pay varies depending on whether youre captain or first officer, and each year your pay typically increases, up to a certain cap, Other than hourly pay, one other important metric is minimum guaranteed monthly hours, since guaranteed hours multiplied by hourly pay guarantees your minimum monthly pay, First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six, Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six, Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month), A first officer is looking at earning $36,300 in the first year, and $62,040 in the sixth year, A captain is looking at earning $77,220 in the first year, and $94,380 in the sixth year, In absolute terms these are above average salaries in the US, However, pilot training is expensive, and an Embraer 195 has nearly 120 seats, so its bigger than your typical regional jet; also, the airline will eventually fly A220s, and presumably pay wont be much better, Breeze is expecting more from pilots than regional airlines, as applicants already need a type rating for Embraer aircraft, and also need more experience, Lets compare Breeze pilot pay to JetBlue pilot pay, since, Lets compare Breeze pilot pay to SkyWest pilot pay; pilots often go to regional airlines to gain experience early on, and this typically represents the lowest pay youll find in the airline industry, First officers are paid $89 per hour in year one, and $130 per hour in year six, Captains are paid $192 per hour in year one, and $203 per hour in year six, Pilots are guaranteed pay for 75 hours per month of flying, A JetBlue Embraer 190 first officer is looking at earning $80,100 in the first year, and $117,000 in the sixth year, A JetBlue Embraer 190 captain is looking at earning $172,800 in the first year, and $182,700 in the sixth year, First officers are paid $45 per hour in year one, and $59 per hour in year six, Captains are paid $79 per hour in year one, and $91 per hour in year six, Pilots are guaranteed pay for 76 hours per month of flying, A first officer is looking at earning $41,040 in the first year, and $53,808 in the sixth year, A captain is looking at earning $72,048 in the first year, and $82,992 in the sixth year, The most unreasonable part of Breezes pay arrangement is the minimum guaranteed hours, rather than the hourly rate as such; everyone needs a certain amount of money to cover their bills, and the minimum monthly amount sure is low, Breeze is essentially trying to pay like a regional airline, while requiring more experience to get hired (pilots need to be type rated on Embraer aircraft, and need 1,000 hours of fixed-wing turbine time), Between the flight attendant employment arrangement and the pilot pay, it doesnt seems like Breeze is trying to build a culture that encourages employees to stay with the company long term, It takes years (and a lot of money) to get to the point where you can get this job, youre flying a plane that retails for tens of millions of dollars, and you have the lives of nearly 120 people at a time in your hands, and youre potentially being paid ~16% above a $15 minimum wage (which we have in many cities nowadays).
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